A Fork in the Road for the SBC

Sitting at lunch, 700 miles from home with two pastors I did not know, I was not surprised that one of their first questions was, "Why the SBC?" These two young men--one a church planter and the other a new pastor of an old church--were asking me if I thought there was any reason to consider being a part of the Southern Baptist Convention or remaining a part of the SBC. I didn't bring it up. I didn't mention that I pastor a church that presently partners with the SBC. They asked. This question is relatively typical in pastor circles these days. It's a reasonable question.

In 2020, congregants started asking, "Has the SBC gone woke?" The SBC was entangled with critical race theory (CRT) and has been arguing about untangling or tightening the knot ever since. For years, there have been questions and arguments about sexual abuse and more significant arguments about what to do about it. Race reconciliation and how to redeem the past, present, and future has been an ongoing argument for decades. The ERLC has sparked numerous in-house arguments about their involvement with elections, pro and anti-abortion legislation, and their participation in promoting Tenesse red-flag gun control laws. Who is and is not a pastor promoted a change in the Baptist Faith and Message that has done more to divide than unite, for good or bad. Questions about NABM's methodologies, partnerships, and accountability have caused sharp, ongoing disagreements. The gross mishandling of seminary funds has been a source of jokes and arguments. Top leaders spiritually disqualifying themselves hasn't helped. Neither has plagiarism. Financial accountability and transparency among the entities the SBC messengers started and funded but can't control have also been the seeds of numerous disputes. Lawsuits. More lawsuits. The lawsuit filed against the SBC by the federal government isn't helping either.

These two pastors also bemoaned issues with their local association and state convention. There was a time when pastors would be frustrated with the SBC national scene but find comfort in the work of local SBC partnerships. Those days are waning, too.

In many cases, the local associations and conventions--among what is often praised as a locally autonomous organization--have terminated autonomy by overly partnering with the national scene for one reason or another. And if they haven't partnered, many seem to have other issues. Lack of vision, lack of innovation in a post-pandemic world, and mission drift are often sources of contention and division.

These struggles have caused pastor and church involvement to decline. Furthermore, sending funds to the Cooperative Program is hard when nobody's cooperating. Efforts to "fix" the local organizations have become another source of disagreement, just as complicated as the disagreements circling the efforts to "fix" the SBC nationally.

Acts 15:36-41 speaks deeply into this matter.

Paul and Barnabas had a great run. Together, they helped equip and train up the church in Antioch. Their first missionary journey was fruitful. They were instrumental in the outcome of the First Jerusalem Council, and the Apostles chose them to take the decision back to the saints. These guys were a power team with a praiseworthy, successful ministry history. But then, a sharp disagreement about how they would move forward arose. How would this be resolved?

It's no small thing that just before this passage, Acts 15:1-35 deals with a serious disagreement and dispute. That issue had much to do with how the Old Testament relates to the New Testament and how Judaism is associated with Christianity, all playing out in the necessity of circumcision. What a severe disagreement that could have easily split the Church! In that case, the dispute was positively resolved unless you were on the side of the Circumcision Party. Now, what would happen between Paul and Barnabas? How would their dispute end?

As it turned out, the disagreement between Paul and Barnabas ended with a split. Barnabas took Mark one way, and Paul took Silas another. What this a positive or negative outcome? Commentators are at odds, but it's clear God's work continued, even if it didn't look like it always looked. There are times when Christians will do ministry, but it may be better that they don't do it together. When the disagreement becomes so distracting from the work, something needs to change.

The SBC is at a fork. Some will continue along the path together, and others will take the divergent trail. Both options are okay. What's not okay is dragging on the sharp disagreements for so long that the work of ministry stalls to nothing. What's not okay is extending the dispute about how we do ministry to include an assault on the choices that churches need to make to continue serving our Lord, one way or another.

The SBC could have many fewer churches. The Corporate program could have substantially less money. But if all the churches stay Kingdom-minded, gospel work will continue in fruitful ways. Churches that no longer share funds with the SBC will deploy those funds in other ways and with other partnerships. Chances are good that churches that separate from the SBC will begin doing more ministry work and give more money to gospel work because they will no longer be so frustrated or discouraged by a dysfunctional partnership. Stalled ministry may move forward once again. And when there's less disagreement within the SBC, the SBC may return to doing healthy ministry, even on a small scale. This is okay, even more than okay. It's good.

I know my answer to the question posed by those two pastors. I also know my answer doesn't need to be anyone else's answer. Autonomous churches need to make their determinations autonomously. They need to choose if and how they partner with the SBC, if and how much they give to the voluntary funding program, and how they feel about it. Autonomous churches must be okay with other autonomous churches doing things differently unless they don't care about autonomy. If we're going to move past this challenging season, we need to look past our disagreements, make our determinations, and choose the path. Then, maybe we'll get back to serving our Lord well.

The Shorter Catechism Explained from Scripture by Thomas Vincent

Bryan Catherman recommends Thomas Vincent's The Shorter Catechism Explained from Scripture, and he explains how to use it and get much from this Puritan Paperback. This book was first published in 1674. Banner of Truth originally republished it in 1980 and then reprinted in with a new cover and typeset in 2021.

Find more book recommendations like this one on the SaltyBeliever.com book recommendation page.

Utah Christian Resource Center Site Visit

Join Josiah Walker, Bryan Catherman, and Robbie Tschorn as they visit and tour the Utah Christian Resource Center. This is a wonderful new resource for learning to defend your faith, learning more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, learning Bible history, and so much more. Listen to the guy’s impression as they visit and record on site to document their experience. Listen to Salty Believer Unscripted wherever you get podcasts or listen here:

Learn more about the Utah Christian Resource Center here and watch the video below:

Subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links: RSS Feed | Google PodcastsApple Podcasts | iTunes  | Amazon Music | Audible | Player FM | iHeartRADIO | Pocket Casts | Castbox | Podbean | Spotify | Podcast Addict | Pandora | YouTube

Concluding Thoughts on a CST Workshop

Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman discuss their concluding thoughts on a Charles Simeon Trust workshop on this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted. After talking with Brett Ricley, Robert Kinney, and being on-site, they share what they’re thinking and what they hope to see in the future. They plan to attend more workshops and they’ve love to see one in Utah. Listen to this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted wherever you get podcasts or listen here:

Subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links: RSS Feed | Google PodcastsApple Podcasts | iTunes  | Amazon Music | Audible | Player FM | iHeartRADIO | Pocket Casts | Castbox | Podbean | Spotify | Podcast Addict | Pandora | YouTube

On Site for the Leader's Day at a CST Workshop (with Daniel)

Daniel Catherman, Josiah Walker, and Bryan Catherman observed the leader’s training day before the Charles Simeon Trust workshop in Southern California. They share their thoughts on-site at the end of a long day. What goes into a workshop? How do the leaders and apprentices prepare for the workshop? They answer these questions and many more on this episode. Listen wherever you get podcasts or listen here:

Subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links: RSS Feed | Google PodcastsApple Podcasts | iTunes  | Amazon Music | Audible | Player FM | iHeartRADIO | Pocket Casts | Castbox | Podbean | Spotify | Podcast Addict | Pandora | YouTube

CST Workshops with Robert Kinney (Part 2)

Join Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman as they chat with Robert Kinney, the director of the Charles Simeon Trust. In this episode, they ask Robert more questions about the CST Workshops and many are the questions you were thinking to ask but they had little to do with what you need to know about attending a Workshop. Who are some of the heavy-hitters who have instructed at workshops? What’s the craziest things to happen at workshops? What are workshops like in other countries? How many chickens are unhelpful at a workshops. Robert answers these questions and many more. Listen to this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted wherever you get podcasts or listen here:

Subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links: RSS Feed | Google PodcastsApple Podcasts | iTunes  | Amazon Music | Audible | Player FM | iHeartRADIO | Pocket Casts | Castbox | Podbean | Spotify | Podcast Addict | Pandora | YouTube

CST Workshops with Robert Kinney (Part 1)

In this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman chat with Robert Kinney, the Director of Ministries at the Charles Simeon Trust. Robert joined the conversation to discuss what to expect at a CST Workshop. How do they work? Why attend one? What should first-time participants expect? He answers these questions and many more. Listen to this episode wherever you get podcasts or listen here:

Subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links: RSS Feed | Google PodcastsApple Podcasts | iTunes  | Amazon Music | Audible | Player FM | iHeartRADIO | Pocket Casts | Castbox | Podbean | Spotify | Podcast Addict | Pandora | YouTube

Brett Ricley's Take on the CST Workshop

Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman had a zoom meeting with Brett Ricley about the Charles Simeon Trust workshop. He’s attended two in the past, so the guys wanted to get his take. What will the workshop be like? What should we expect? How did it go for Brett? What would Brett change or improve if he could? These are the kinds of questions they ask and he answers. Listen to this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted wherever you listen to podcasts or listen here:

Subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links: RSS Feed | Google PodcastsApple Podcasts | iTunes  | Amazon Music | Audible | Player FM | iHeartRADIO | Pocket Casts | Castbox | Podbean | Spotify | Podcast Addict | Pandora | YouTube

The Charles Simeon Trust: An Introduction

Join Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman as they discuss the Charles Simeon Trust workshop. They are headed to a workshop on preaching Epistles, specifically 2 Timothy, and they thought they’d podcast their experience. In this episode, they share what they’re excited about and what’s making them nervous. In the coming episodes, they’ll chat with someone who’s already attended some workshops, and they’ll also talk with Robert Kinney from Charles Simeon Trust. They also hope to record an episode or two on site. Whether you’re a preacher or not, this series will give you a good look into these workshops, but also some of what goes into preparing sermons. Listen to this episode wherever you get podcasts or listen here:

Subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links: RSS Feed | Google PodcastsApple Podcasts | iTunes  | Amazon Music | Audible | Player FM | iHeartRADIO | Pocket Casts | Castbox | Podbean | Spotify | Podcast Addict | Pandora | YouTube

Now What?

You invited someone to a Christmas or Easter service. Maybe they came; maybe they didn’t. Now what? What’s the next step after you’ve invited a friend or co-worker to church? That’s the topic of this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted. Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman discuss what might work well as a next step. There are many possibilities. Where do we go next? What happens next? Listen this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted wherever you listen to podcasts, or listen here:

Subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links: RSS Feed | Google PodcastsApple Podcasts | iTunes  | Amazon Music | Audible | Player FM | iHeartRADIO | Pocket Casts | Castbox | Podbean | Spotify | Podcast Addict | Pandora | YouTube

A Look Back and a Look Ahead

Join Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman as they look back at 2023 and look ahead to 2024. What’s coming on the Salty Believer Unscripted podcast? This is their 524th episode so they chat about some past episodes and things Bryan is doing to remember some of the greatest hits. Keep an eye out for that. Also, they talk about what they’ve read and what they’re hoping to read. Listen to this episode on Salty Believer Unscripted wherever you listen to podcasts or listen here:

Subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links: RSS Feed | Google PodcastsApple Podcasts | iTunes  | Amazon Music | Audible | Player FM | iHeartRADIO | Pocket Casts | Castbox | Podbean | Spotify | Podcast Addict | Pandora | YouTube

The Gospel from Genesis to Revelation in 13 Minutes

As a Pastor, I have the task of preaching a Christmas Eve service each year. Technically, it’s an Eve of Eve sermon because the church I pastor does an event on December 23rd. It’s basically the same things church all across the country do, just a day early. Lots of music, a short sermon, evangelistic, and well-attended by friends and family who only step into a church building once or twice per year. Sermons on this night typically come from Matthew 1 or Luke 2. Attendees have gotten this part of the Gospel story down but know nothing of the rest of the story. This was frustrating me this year. I wanted to do something different so we’d hear the story from Genesis to Revelation.

Biblical theology is important. The story of the entire Bible is necessary. I believe in the sufficiency of Scripture. But what would be the best way to share the story in such a short blip of time?

I decided that I would link as much Scripture together as possible with a limited amount of my own words getting in they way. I could read a large section of Scripture, but how would I cover the story for Genesis to Revelation? I decided to string together Scriptures, or parts of Scriptures, in such a way to tell the story. I’d let God’s words have as much of the time and all the speaking. To let people know that’s what I was attempting to do, we put up the references as I went.

Preparation was was a difficult task. One challenge was determining which Scriptures to pull together. Another challenge was being sure it was clear. At times the way a verses was worded, I was concerned someone unfamiliar with the Bible would be confused. But the most significant challenge was going through each Scripture and doing my best to be sure I was using the verses as they actually communicate in their own context. At times, I pulled from them as if they were the prophecy rather then fulfillment, but I would have to change the tense. Other times, I spoke only parts of the verse. But it would need to communicate as God’s Word intends to communicate. I’m sure it wasn’t spot-on right, but I labored to get as close the mark as I could.

In thirteen minutes, I read from 85 references that covered parts of verses or entire multiple passages. They spanned from Genesis to Revelation. I think the gospel story was told and I believe it worked. I was well received. You can decide for yourself in the video below. Also, the list of Scriptures I used are below the video.

Scripture references in the order they'll be read (or said):

Hebrews 1:1, Genesis 1:1, Genesis 1:31, Genesis 3:1, John 8:44, 1 Peter 5:8, Genesis 2:17, Genesis 3:23, Romans 5:12, Genesis 3:16, Revelation 22:3, Isaiah 25:9, Genesis 12:1, Genesis 12:3, Exodus 3:4, Genesis 18:18-19, John 1:29, Exodus 12:13, Hebrews 10:4, Hebrews 10:1, Acts 4:12, 1 Samuel 13:4, 2 Samuel 7:12-13, Psalm 53:6, Micah 7:7, Amos 3:7, Luke 24:27, Isaiah 7:14, Micah 5:2, Jeremiah 31:15, Isaiah 40:3, Matthew 12:18-21, Matthew 13:14-15, John 1:11, Deuteronomy 21:23, Isaiah 53:3, Philippians 2:6-11, Luke 2:8, Luke 2:11, Matthew 1:23, Matthew 1:25, Matthew 1:21, Hebrews 1:1, John 1:14, Luke 2:52, 2 Corinthians 5:21, Hebrews 4:25, 2 Peter 2:22, Romans 3:23, Matthew 3:16, Mathew 4:1, Matthew 4:17, Matthew 7:22, Romans 6:23, John 3:16-18, John 1:10-11, Matthew 21:5, Matthew 21:9-10, Luke 23:21, John 19:18, 1 Peter 2:24, 2 Corinthians 5:21, Isaiah 53:5, Hebrews 10:10, Luke 23:53, Luke 24:1-3, Luke 24:6, Acts 1:9, Romans 10:9, John 1:12, Matthew 13:16-17, Romans 8:34, Hebrews 13:3, Matthew 11:28, John 14:6, John 14:3, Matthew 16:27, Revelation 20:10, Isaiah 43:19, 2 Corinthians 5:15, Romans 8:1-2, John 14:27, Revelation 22:17, Revelation 22:20, and Revelation 22:21.

Students Coming Out of Seminary Today, an Interview with Mark Bradley

In this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Bryan Catherman interviewed Dr. Mark Bradley, the Director of the Pacific Northwest Campus of Gateway Seminary. They discuss ministry in the Pacific Northwest, seminary education, and Mark’s outlook for the future that graduating students are entering. They also talk about what he sees in students today. Is the pipeline empty? Are there not enough pastors to fill the pulpits of all the boomers retiring soon? Has the challenges of liberalism and the shifting cultural tides scared off students? What can we expect in the future based on what we are seeing today. These are among many of the questions they covered. Listen to Salty Believer Unscripted wherever you get podcasts or listen to both parts of this 2-part interview with Mark Bradley here:

Students Coming Out of Seminary Today, an Interview with Mark Bradley
— Part 1
audio


— Part 2
audio

Subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
RSS Feed | Google PodcastsApple Podcasts | iTunes  | Amazon Music | Audible | Player FM | iHeartRADIO | Pocket Casts | Castbox | Podbean | Spotify | Podcast Addict | Pandora | YouTube

Ecumenical Ministry: All Together

On this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Bryan Catherman and Josiah Walker discuss ecumenical ministry. Should churches join with non-Christian ministries in the community? Should we lay down our differences and compromise the gospel of Jesus Christ for the sake of community? What about working with other Christians who do things very differently? How do we decide? Everything is done in some way, but who decides which way, and is it really a two-way street? These the questions that lead the conversation and they answer these and more.

Subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links: RSS Feed | Google PodcastsApple Podcasts | iTunes  | Amazon Music | Audible | Player FM | iHeartRADIO | Pocket Casts | Castbox | Podbean | Spotify | Podcast Addict | YouTube

Keeping the Saw Sharp

Now that Josiah Walker has finished seminary, he and Bryan Catherman discuss how a person can get sharp and stay sharp. What do pastors do? What can people with limited time do? How do trained people stay sharp and keep up with their training? What if we have a huge list of books we want to read but limited time? How do we structure our study time? What are some of the best practices? Bryan and Josiah answer these questions others in this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted. Listen wherever you listen to podcasts or listen here:

Subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links: RSS Feed | Google PodcastsApple Podcasts | iTunes  | Amazon Music | Audible | Player FM | iHeartRADIO | Pocket Casts | Castbox | Podbean | Spotify | Podcast Addict | YouTube

12-Years Later: The Very First Salty Believer Unscripted Podcast

It was on January 26, 2012, that I sat down with Jared Jenkins and recorded the very first episode of Salty Believer Unscripted. Will filmed it as well as recorded it in an audio-only fashion so we could determine if it would be a podcast with or without video. Just looking at the work the video required, we opted for audio-only. The topic of that first podcast was seminary, chiefly Jared Jenkins experiences as he had just completed his Masters of Divinity (M.Div). I was a semester away from doing the same. The title of our first podcast is "Seminary with Jared Jenkins." That first episode became the anchor and format for our long-running, online of weekly podcast

In that episode, Jared discussed his experience at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and Bryan at Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary. At one point, they even mentioned Golden Gate Baptist Theological seminary (now Gateway Seminary of the Southern Baptist Convention). Twelve years later, I’ve earned a DMin and Jared a PhD. I’ve planted a church which I still pastor and Jared is likely to become the Senior Pastor of the church were we recorded that podcast. Jared has also had many other ventures in his academic endeavors, starting the Salt Lake School of Theology (a teaching site of Gateway Seminary) were he teaches as an adjunct professor, he’s published in journals and books, and he’ll probably end up a seminary President one day. I’ve also done some seminary teaching and lecturing, served a doctoral committee and been a field mentor for doctoral candidates, and published. We’ve both served two terms at the president of the Utah-Idaho Southern Baptist Convention. It’s been a remarkable 12 years.

We’ve also had the pleasure of recording many amazing Salty Believer Unscripted episodes with tons of interesting guests—both well know and obscure. Guests have included folks like Al Mohler, Jeff Irog, Jason Allen, Jim Hamilton, Doug Wilson, Becket Cook, George Guthrie, Bobby Jamieson, Jonathan Howe, Temper Longman III, Rick Melick, Jeremy Meeks, Alvin Reed, J. D. Payne, Robert Plummer, Robert Kinney, Jimmy Scroggin, Trevin Wax, Lynn Wilder, Malcom Yarnell, Jim Wilson, Travis Kerns, Nik Ripken, Randy Stenson, Vance Pitman, Will Mancini, and so many others. (See the complete list here.)

We’ve had multiple interns, one of which went on to become a host—Josiah Walker. Brett Ricley also joined for along season hosting the podcast with me.

It’s been a great 12 years. We’re hoping for another great 12 years of podcasting, should our Lord tarry. We’re hoping to make a return to having guests on and we’re praying for some highly interesting conversations. It’s our prayer that this podcast blesses our listeners and edifies the Church, however God may determine to use our feeble efforts. We also hope to bring back a SBU Rewind post now and then to draw some attention to some of the outstanding discussions we’ve had. Keep an eye out for those. (You can find all of our episodes here.)

In the meantime, if you’ve never listened to the first episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, you can listen here:

You can also watch this episode on YouTube. It was originally posted on my personal YouTube account. In 2017, we moved it over to our Salty Believer YouTube Channel when we decided it was time SaltBeleiver.com needed a channel.

Find all our past podcasts on our website, SaltyBeliever.com and hear new podcasts by subscribing to Salty Believer Unscripted wherever you get your podcasts.

Josiah Has Graduated: A Discussion on the Value of Seminary

Josiah Walker has graduated! We’re proud of him. Congratulations Josiah! In this episode, Bryan Catherman interviewed Josiah Walker about the value of his time in seminary at Gateway Seminary. If you’re thinking about going to seminary, hearing Josiah’s experience may help you think well about seminary. What was the most valuable? Which class was his favorite? Knowing what he knows now, would he do it again? Listen to this episode wherever you listen to the Salty Believer Unscripted podcast, or listen here:

Subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links: RSS Feed | Google PodcastsApple Podcasts | iTunes  | Amazon Music | Audible | Player FM | iHeartRADIO | Pocket Casts | Castbox | Podbean | Spotify | Podcast Addict | YouTube

Doug the Cussing Pastor: Is it Salt or a Chili Pepper?

In the recent back-and-forth between Kevin DeYoung and Doug Wilson, DeYoung raised the topic of Wilson's cussing in an article titled "On Culture War, Doug Wilson, and the Moscow Mood." DeYoung linked to a few highly graphic examples, some of which are king of the socially unacceptable mountain. (See the lengthy list of words in the fourth paragraph of the "Mood is the Message" section of DeYong's critique.) Then DeYoung states what's most on this pastor's mind, writing, 

"Were I to use these words in public (or in private) I would be quickly confronted by my elders and likely brought before my presbytery for questioning. If I persisted, I would probably be deposed as a minister. And rightly so, for such language constitutes filthiness, foolish talk, and crude joking (Eph. 5:4). Which of the Puritans, or Southern Presbyterians for that matter, would have dared to speak this way? What candidate coming forward for ordination could get away with writing in this way? What parent would be thrilled if their daughter's new boyfriend sprinkled his vocabulary with words like these? If such "prophetic" language is justified for the minister when he is attacking a godless culture, is the language therefore appropriate in the pulpit?"  

While all of DeYoung's questions on this matter are reasonable, the most crucial question is how Wilson's use of crass words (many of a sexually immoral nature) measures up against Ephesians 5:1-5. 

Wilson responded to DeYoung's critique. Both men have made interesting arguments and done so in reasonable ways, except for Wilson's response to this question. (See his response starting at minute 19:34 of the YouTube video titled, "My Rejoiner to Kevin Deyong | Doug Wilson.")  

To address the use of foul language that goes against Ephesians 5:1-5, Wilson started with a brief lesson on the tu quoque fallacy, explaining that one can't handle a claim of wrongdoing by stating the other guy also does it. That doesn't make it less wrong. Wilson says, "This is a fallacy of deflection and an attempt to change the subject." Then Wilson says he's not doing that while pointing out that The Gospel Coalition (of which DeYoung is a part) reviews movies with these same words in them and, if I understand his argument, also uses the same words in the actual reviews. According to Wilson, he's not deploying the tu quoque fallacy because Wilson's "use of hot sauce language is completely different than the use commended by multiple TCG movie reviews." Wilson shifted the focus from his use of the words to the purpose of the words. Then he quotes three Scriptures about judging by the same standards--Matthew 7:2, Romans 2:3, and Galatians 6:1. However, so far, all he's done is bring TCG under the same question but hasn't addressed it for himself. That's not the issue. He still has not answered how he (and now TGC) stack up against Ephesians 5:1-5.    

He continued this distraction for a few minutes by taking more digs at DeYoung and TGC's use of language before he finally turned the objective back to himself. Wilson goes back to a piece of writing where he used what might be the most egregious of all cuss words (the c-word) and claimed he'd write every syllable again and defend it as a stand for righteousness. He doesn't deny using the foul language as DeYoung claimed; he celebrates it. But still, what answer will he give in light of Ephesians 5:1-5? 

Then Wilson claimed that people overlook the entire argument of that past article because it contains one foul word. He attacked the reader, saying that focusing on the naughty word can score easy points and avoid the article's argument.  It's the reader's fault!  Then he again turned it back on DeYoung and Justin Taylor because they are hypocrites. If all of that were not enough distraction and deflection, Wilson took a page out of Big-Eva's playbook and then said something to the effect that it's okay he uses these cuss words because he also includes a gospel message in his writing. (The assumption is we can do whatever we want if there's a gospel purpose.) All of this (and it's a lot) may or may not be true, but the original critique and question is about using words that violate Ephesians 5:1-5. Not the purpose of how these words are used. Not what those words may or may not be doing in an article. Not who else Wilson is joining by using the words. Not the hypocrisy of those who raised the issue of Wilson's use of filthy words. Not whether or not Wilson presented the gospel. How are we to think about this behavior if Christians are called to be imitators of God, avoiding sexuality immorality, qualified by Ephesians 5:4, which says, "Obecene and foolish talking or crude joking are not suitable"?  

Finally, Douglas Wilson turned to Scripture to make his point. Would he appeal to Galatians 5:12? Or maybe Ezekiel 23:20? Wilson said, "Keep this principle in mind: The Apostle Paul said that we are to have our speech be gracious, seasoned with the occasional red-hot chili pepper, Colossians 4:6." He went on to say that in his cooking of millions of words, he has on occasion, deliberately put in a red-hot one to be obedient to God. Then he said, "The way I use it, the pepper is not a sin." How so? Because, he argues, it's not a sin if the foul language is being deployed righteously.  

What might be a sin is the egregious way he twisted the Word of God with Colossians 4:6 to defend himself from Ephesians 5:4.    

Is Doug Wilson using obscene and foolish talking or crude joking based on a command of Colossians 4:6? That appears to be his line of thinking. Is he engaging in sexually immoral or impure behavior with his language? He seems to say he is indeed. Rather than responding with an interpretation of Ephesians 5:4 and answering the question with his understanding of that verse, he instead changed the meaning of Colossians 4:6 to give himself a free pass.     

Wilson said the principle of Colossians 4:6 is to have gracious language that's occasionally seasoned with a red-hot chili pepper. The context of his entire argument suggests that red-hot chili peppers are the most offensive and foul words in a society's language. But that's not what Colossians 4:6 says.  

"Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person" (Colossians 4:6, ESV). The CSB and NET are identical, except "ought" is rendered "should." The NKJV is the same as the ESV, except "gracious" is rendered "with grace." The LSB (promoted by John MacArthur) is the same other than "speech," which the LSB translates as "words." Nearly every English translation of this verse is the same in meaning, with only very minor differences in word choices. But none of them translate halas (salt) as "red-hot chili pepper." Nearly every translation uses a comma between the first and second clauses, likely indicating that the second clause further explains how the speech should be gracious. Doug Wilson's translation seems to allow for the occasional exception to gracious speech and with something different than salt.  

Reading the Greek clause, "seasoned with salt" either means that the speech is always with grace AND seasoned with salt, or always with grace BECAUSE it is seasoned with salt. There's no way to render a contrast here. It's not that the speech should be gracious, BUT at times, be different, even if rarely. That goes against the "always" in the verse and the point of the statement. Either way, speech is always to be gracious. The purpose of the salt might be up for debate, but it's an overreach to say it means spicy, offensive, foul, sexually immoral language to strengthen an argument and get in a jet-fueled gospel share. Mark 9:50's use of salt doesn't lead to that conclusion either. It says, "Salt is good, but if the salt should lose its flavor, how can you season it? Have salt among yourselves, and be at peace with one another." Much of the language in question is not gracious, nor does it bring believers peace with one another.   

Furthermore, misrendering Colossians 4:6 will only get obscene and foolish language off the hook if the red-hot chili pepper principle is true. It's not. Therefore, Wilson didn't answer the meaningful question. I believe this is where Wilson needs to get more honest and solid in his response to the question. I hope he takes a second swing at this part. I think it would greatly benefit his writing, arguments, and gospel sharing if Wilson avoided the pitfall of inviting his readers to miss the argument and gospel sharing because he allowed an obvious distraction to get in the way. Why put in this unnecessary spice that's not part of the main dish only to have the entire plate returned to the kitchen, which he concluded keeps happening?   

I greatly appreciated the rest of Doug Willson's response to Kevin DeYoung's critique, which I also appreciate. This public conversation is an interesting and helpful discussion, especially for pastors working week in and week out in small churches nationwide. Based on Wilson's explanation about how these kinds of discussions are supposed to go, I'm nervous someone from Moscow or a Moscow fan will turn a blowtorch on me, but I am still open to Wilson's point about discourse. Doug, I have a podcast called "Salty Believer Unscripted" (which you've been a guest on twice). I'd be happy to have you on again as a guest to discuss alternative ways to use language so as not to cause such an unfortunate distraction. I believe you are skilled and creative enough to do that very thing. The best art comes when artists self-impose limits. And there's more to this than your use of red-hot chili peppers or your disagreement with Kevin and TGC. A lot more is at stake. Many young pastors try to emulate your style or words only to destroy their ability to do good ministry work. I am appealing to you primarily for the sake of all those who mirror what you are doing but have no idea why or how you do it. While you may not believe the language in question is problematic for you, it is causing ministry consequences you may not see but could prevent.  

(Okay, let me get my fire suit on while someone lights up the flamethrower.) 

Where Do We Draw the Deacon Line?

I've been advocating that any person who serves the Bride of Christ should be an Elder or a Deacon. A common objection I get has to do with the line between what people perceive should be in the office of Deacon and what should be outside the responsibilities of that office. "Surely making coffee for the church doesn't fall within the responsibilities of a Deacon, does it?" I've been challenged more than once. This question exposes two avenues of thinking. The first is that some service to the Lord's Church is significant enough to require qualifications, while other service is not. In other words, the objector says that "making coffee is not important enough to require God's attention or concern." The second avenue of thinking is that we are free to decide where to place the line in a local church because God does not clearly given us the line. 

As Deacons assist the Elders in the shepherding and care of the congregation, many things may be helpful. At Redeeming Life Church, were I serve as an Elder, servants help prepare the Lord's Supper, which they help distribute during services. They help collect the offering, and others help count it and make a deposit. Servants help in the children's ministry and lead fellowship groups. We have people greeting, helping with security, making coffee, and translating the service into Ukrainian. We have people praying throughout the entire service in a small room beside our assembly hall. Servants play musical instruments and handle all the technical aspects of our audio-visual and online needs. There's help with accounting, cleaning, snow shoveling, and building maintenance during the week. Some of our servants visit seniors and shut-ins, host a monthly meal, make food, deliver meals, wash tablecloths and towels, and do maintenance at people's homes. All of these tasks serve the Body of Christ. 

As the entire local church exercises the gifts God has given them in service to one another, the Body functions as a whole. Should we ever say, "You're not as important; you're not as needed as me?" Surely, Paul's teaching in 1 Corinthians 12 prohibits this line of thinking! It's beautiful to see service as a faithful expression of love for one another and corporate worship toward God. "But what about qualifications?" someone might challenge me; "Are you advocating that the person making coffee should meet the qualifications of the Deacon in 1 Timothy 3:8-13?" Yes. I believe every Christian should aspire to meet these qualifications. To anyone who suggests otherwise, I'm curious why a believer would not be encouraged to grow into this standard. 

Some advocate that there are responsibilities in a local church that should fall within the Office of Deacon (or servant), and other duties that should not. But here's where it gets thorny. To what Scripture can I appeal to know where to draw the line? What's in and what's out? Therefore, it's safe to ask anyone who serves to meet the qualification of the Deacon. I suppose someone could argue that the Bible doesn't require such a thing, but neither does it prohibit such an approach. There is no scriptural argument that the Deacons serve the Lord's Supper and visit shut-ins but are not responsible for other service areas. That's nothing more than an appeal to tradition. 

Asking everyone who serves the Bride of Christ to meet the requirements of the office of Deacon does not diminish the role of the Deacon; it elevates it. It says that service to our Lord--any service--is valuable and important. Just as the title "Christian" should indicate one who believes and follows the biblical Christ, the title "Deacon" should indicate one who faithfully serves the Bride of Christ. We should welcome all qualified servants to the office of Deacon rather than allow tradition or pride to give an official title only a small group of people while overlooking the other qualified people as if they are second-class servants.

Dealing with Doug: A Look at Kevin DeYoung's Critique of Douglas Wilson

In this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman discuss Kevin DeYoung’s critique of Doug Wilson’s No Quarter November. “What do you think of Doug Wilson?” is the question that opens DeYoung’s article. The article goes on to examine Wilson’s approach to ministry. This sparked the conversation for Bryan and Josiah to talk about how we might respond to questions about ministers we struggle with. Pastors get questions about popular leaders often, and this discussion gets at how Pastors deal with those questions—good, bad, or ugly. The guys also discuss the conflict and the critique. Listen to this episode wherever you listen to podcasts, or listen here:

Subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links: RSS Feed | Google PodcastsApple Podcasts | iTunes  | Amazon Music | Audible | Player FM | iHeartRADIO | Pocket Casts | Castbox | Podbean | Spotify | Podcast Addict | YouTube