Dealing with Doug: A Look at Kevin DeYoung's Critique of Douglas Wilson

In this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman discuss Kevin DeYoung’s critique of Doug Wilson’s No Quarter November. “What do you think of Doug Wilson?” is the question that opens DeYoung’s article. The article goes on to examine Wilson’s approach to ministry. This sparked the conversation for Bryan and Josiah to talk about how we might respond to questions about ministers we struggle with. Pastors get questions about popular leaders often, and this discussion gets at how Pastors deal with those questions—good, bad, or ugly. The guys also discuss the conflict and the critique. Listen to this episode wherever you listen to podcasts, or listen here:

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Stewards of the Bride: Finding Your Place in the Church

Join Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman as they finish up our series, “Stewards of the Bride.” In this episode, they seek to answer the question, “How do I find my place in a local church?” Given what an Elder is, and give what a Deacon is, what does it look like to serve the Bride of Christ in the local church? How can I serve? How should I serve? What can’t I do? Why? This is the conversation they recorded in this episode. Listen wherever you listen to podcasts or listen here:

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Stewards of the Bride: What About the Ladies?

In this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman talk about the role of women in the church. What about women elders? Women deacons (servants)? These are significant questions given the gender-enflamed aspects of culture is bleeding into the Church lately. What does the Bible say? What is the place for women in the service of the Bride of Christ? Listen to this episode wherever you get podcasts or listen here:

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God's Take on the End Times

It doesn't take much to get American Christians asking about end times and Armageddon. The pandemic lockdowns, mask mandates, and vaccines have people convinced we will see the mark of the beast on the horizon. The riots, defunding the police, Critical Race Theory (CRT) and Intersectionality, LGBTQ+ agendas, presidential elections, and artificial intelligence (AI) like Midjourney, DeepFake, and ChatGPT have all added adrenaline to the frenzy. But nothing has had as big of a splash in recent years as the war between Israel and Hamas in the Palestinian settlements in Gaza. You bring in Iran and Syria's involvement, and Scofield Study Bibles start flying off the shelves. When Russia rescinded their nuclear weapon testing agreements, Kirk Cameron's Left Behind movies shot to number one on the streaming services. Are we seeing Gog and Magog? Are these things the bowls of judgment? Was the COVID-19 and the world-wide pandemic the start of the Great Tribulation? What about the rapture? When is that? Interest in the end times and eschatology has shot to the moon.  

Sadly, most people launch into a study of the end times by searching Google or YouTube. (Maybe that's how you found this post.) After reading and reading and reading or binge-watching for a few hours, people have engaged with two or three verses in the Bible and an overwhelming dump of things to be afraid of. That's not a healthy way to study an aspect of God's creation and his glorious redemptive work in human history.   

A better approach would be to let God tell you about it by reading the Bible two, three, or ten times. It's nearly impossible to study the end without studying the beginning. And you're not going to see the hope and awe in it if you don't first understand the problem and the solution in the gospel. Jesus' second coming is pointless to you if you haven't read about and studied his first coming. There are about 55 Marvel Titles in the MCU. It's not going to be very helpful if you only watch Avengers: Endgame.  Or, using a Star Wars illustration, it might be like watching the Ashoka series, having never seen the Clone WarsRebels, or the Mandalorian series.  

But still, there will be people who want to get into the meat and potatoes of eschatology without studying other doctrines or reading the entire Bible. Or there might be those who haven't put as much time into eschatology as they have other doctrines. I get that because that's me on some of the doctrines. If I'm describing you, then the list below is for you! I've assembled a list of the significant Scriptures discussed, debated, and cited regarding eschatology and end times. It's not an exhaustive list, and changes are reasonable. I've missed some. (Don't hesitate to contact me and let me know what I forgot.) I've also included a brief summary of the verses, although I'm not set on the summaries. I realize those might not get at the bigger picture of the passage, and plenty of people would probably like to debate my summaries. Trust me, it's not worth it because I'm not married to the summaries.  

Start reading and rereading your way through these passages. Read them all before you start digging into any particular one. Get the bigger picture and try to see how they fit together. Then, study the context of each and what each passage is and is not communicating. Think deeply about God's Word.  

Some will see this list and say, "That's way too much!" It's only about 8% of the Bible. That's reasonable, especially if you want a good handle on what God says about the end times. I hope this list is helpful, and may God greatly bless your studies!     

On to the list of significant Bible passages dealing with the end times!            

Genesis 49:1-27.  At the end of his life, Jacob gathers his sons and prophesies over each of them, foretelling their futures and that of their descendants. These prophecies include significant messianic expectations, particularly regarding the tribe of Judah, from whom the royal line, culminating in Christ, is prophesied to come.

Psalm 2. This psalm is a coronation hymn celebrating God's sovereign kingship and the anointed king's rule over the nations. It has messianic implications, referencing the Son, whom all kings and rulers are commanded to serve with reverence.

Psalm 110. Attributed to David, this psalm expresses the ultimate victory and eternal priesthood of the Messianic king. In the New Testament, Psalm 110 is often cited as evidence of Jesus Christ's divine sonship and high priestly role.

Isaiah 2:1-22. This passage presents a vision of the last days when the mountain of the Lord's house will be established, and all nations will come to it. It contrasts this with a call to reject the idols and pride, emphasizing God's ultimate judgment and exaltation.

Isaiah 7:10-35:10. These chapters in Isaiah combine prophecies of judgment and hope, including the famous Immanuel prophecy, which foreshadows the virgin birth of Christ. It also describes the Assyrian invasion as a judgment on faithlessness and foretells a future restoration for a faithful remnant.

Isaiah 42:18-56:8. This series of prophecies focuses on the Servant of the Lord, understood as a messianic figure who will bring justice and salvation. These chapters also emphasize God's sovereignty, the futility of idolatry, and the hope of restoration for Israel and blessings for all nations.

Isaiah 60:1-65:24. These chapters envision the glorious restoration of Zion and the gathering of nations to the light of God's presence. They culminate in the promise of new heavens and a new earth, where righteousness dwells and sorrow is no more.

Jeremiah 30-31. These chapters offer hope in despair, prophesying the restoration of Judah from captivity. They notably contain the promise of a New Covenant, written on the hearts of God's people, fulfilling the law more intimately and personally.

Ezekiel 33-48. Beginning with Ezekiel's role as a watchman, these chapters span visions of restoration for Israel. The latter chapters describe a new temple and a renewed land, symbolizing God's presence among his people.

Daniel 2. King Nebuchadnezzar's dream of a great statue, interpreted by Daniel, outlines a succession of kingdoms, culminating in establishing God's eternal kingdom. The dream sets the stage for the prophetic overview of world history and the ultimate victory of God's dominion.

Daniel 7-12. These chapters contain apocalyptic visions, including the four beasts, the Ancient of Days, and the prophecy of seventy weeks. They deal with themes of persecution, end times, and the ultimate victory of God's people.

Hosea 3. Hosea's redemption of his unfaithful wife symbolizes God's unfailing love for Israel despite their idolatry. It points to when the Israelites will return to God and their Davidic king.

Joel 2-3. These chapters describe the terrifying "Day of the Lord," a time of judgment and restoration. It includes the promise of the outpouring of the Spirit in the last days, culminating in salvation for those who call on the Lord.

Amos 8-9. Amos prophesies imminent judgment against Israel for their social injustices and religious complacency, culminating in a vision in which there is a famine of hearing the words of the Lord. Yet, there is a glimmer of hope in the final promise of restoration and rebuilding.

Obadiah 1:15-21. This passage in Obadiah speaks of the coming day of the Lord, when Edom will be judged for its arrogance and violence against Jacob. It ends with a vision of the kingdom of God being established and holiness prevailing.

Micah 4-5.  These chapters prophesy the future exaltation of Mount Zion as a center of God's rule, where nations will seek peace and justice. Micah 5 is a prophecy of Jesus coming from Bethlehem.

Zephaniah 1-3. Zephaniah's prophecies focus on the coming day of the Lord, a day of wrath and judgment against sin, but also of shelter and protection for those who seek the Lord. The book concludes with a promise of restoration and joy for Jerusalem and the nations.

Zechariah 9-11. This section includes prophecies of judgment against Israel's enemies and the coming of Zion's king, humble and riding on a donkey. It also foretells the rejection of the shepherd and the scattering of the flock, symbolizing Israel's rejection of God's care.

Zechariah 12-14. These final chapters of Zechariah describe the siege of Jerusalem, a time of great trial followed by the Lord's intervention and victory. They include the piercing of the Messiah, a fountain opened for sin and uncleanness, and the ultimate establishment of God's kingdom.

Malachi 3-4. These chapters speak of the coming of the Lord's messenger to prepare the way and the subsequent arrival of the Lord for judgment. It concludes with a promise of the sun of righteousness rising with healing and the coming of Elijah before the great and dreadful day of the Lord.

Matthew 13. This chapter contains a series of parables Jesus taught about the Kingdom of Heaven, including the parable of the sower, the wheat and the tares, and the mustard seed. These parables reveal truths about the Kingdom's growth and the eventual separation of the righteous and the wicked.

Matthew 24-25. Jesus discusses the end times and his second coming, providing signs of the end and parables to illustrate vigilance and faithfulness. It includes the parable of the ten virgins and the talents, emphasizing readiness for his return.

Mark 13. Like Matthew 24, this chapter records Jesus' teachings on the end times, including the Temple's destruction, signs of the end, and the need for vigilance. Jesus emphasizes the unpredictability of the timing and the importance of staying alert.

Luke 17:20-37. Jesus addresses questions about the coming of the Kingdom of God, emphasizing its unexpected nature and the need for readiness. He parallels the days of Noah and Lot to illustrate the suddenness of the Kingdom's arrival.

Luke 21:5-36. In this passage, Jesus predicts the destruction of the Temple and describes the signs that will precede the end times. He urges his followers to remain watchful and prayerful, assuring them of God's guidance through these challenging times.

John 14:1-7. Jesus comforts his disciples, promising to prepare a place for them in his Father's house and assuring them of his return. He declares himself the way, the truth, and the life, the only path to the Father.

Acts 1:9-11. This passage describes Jesus' ascension into heaven after his resurrection. The angels assured the disciples that Jesus will return as they saw him ascend to heaven.

Romans 9-11. These chapters deal with the sovereignty of God in salvation, the current unbelief of Israel, and the eventual mercy God will show to both Jews and Gentiles. Paul emphasizes God's faithfulness to his promises and the mystery of his salvation plan.

1 Corinthians 15:12-58. Paul expounds on the resurrection of the dead, arguing that Christ's resurrection is the foundation of Christian hope. He describes the nature of the resurrected body and proclaims the ultimate victory over death.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:28. Paul addresses concerns about the fate of those who have died before Christ's return, assuring the believers of their participation in the resurrection. He describes the Lord's return as unexpected and calls for continual readiness and encouragement among believers.

2 Thessalonians 2. This chapter deals with the coming of the Lord and the man of lawlessness. Paul encourages the Thessalonians not to be easily unsettled about the Day of the Lord, explaining that certain events must occur first.

1 Timothy 4:1-8. Paul warns Timothy about false teachings and apostasy in the end times, urging him to be a good minister by focusing on godliness. He emphasizes the importance of sound doctrine and personal discipline.

2 Timothy 4:1-8. Paul charges Timothy to preach the word diligently in all circumstances, especially since the time will come when people will not endure sound teaching. Paul reflects on his own life as being poured out like a drink offering and the crown of righteousness awaiting him.

Hebrews 1:1-2. The author of Hebrews emphasizes that God, who spoke through prophets in the past, has spoken through his Son in these last days. Jesus is the heir of all things and the one through whom the world was made.

Hebrews 9:26-28. This passage contrasts the Old Covenant's repeated sacrifices with Christ's single, sufficient sacrifice. It speaks of Christ's once-for-all sacrifice to remove sin and his promised return, not to bear sin but to bring salvation to those waiting for him.

James 5:1-8. James encourages believers to be patient and steadfast, awaiting the Lord's coming, who is near.

1 John 2:15-3:10. John warns against loving the world and its desires, contrasting it with doing God's will. He speaks of the Christian hope of being like Christ when he appears and the purifying effect of this hope.

Jude 1:14-25. Jude emphasizes the judgment of the ungodly and the Lord's coming with thousands of his holy ones. He concludes with encouragement to remain in God's love and assurances of God's ability to keep them from stumbling.

Revelation 1-22. The book of Revelation, a prophetic vision given to John, includes letters to seven churches and vivid imagery of the events leading up to the end times. It culminates with the return of Christ, the final judgment, the defeat of evil, and the establishment of a new heaven and new earth.

Here's a list of the Scriptures mentioned above, uninterrupted by the summary of the passage: Genesis 49:1-27, Psalm 2, Psalm 110, Isaiah 2:1-22, Isaiah 7:10-35:10, Isaiah 42:18-56:8, Isaiah 60:1-65:24, Jeremiah 30-31, Ezekiel 33-48, Daniel 2, Daniel 7-12, Hosea 3, Joel 2-3, Amos 8-9, Obadiah 1:15-21, Micah 4-5, Zephaniah 1-3, Zechariah 9-14, Malachi 3-4, Matthew 13, Matthew 24-25, Mark 13, Luke 17:20-37, Luke 21:5-36, John 14:1-7, Acts 1:9-11, Romans 9-11, 1 Corinthians 15:12-58, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:28, 2 Thessalonians 2, 1 Timothy 4:1-8, 2 Timothy 4:1-8, Hebrews 1:1-2, Hebrews 9:26-28, James 5:1-8, 1 John 2:15-3:10, Jude 1:14-25, and Revelation 1-22.

How are the Books in the Bible Organized?

If you are new to the Bible and trying to read it cover to cover (called the canonical order), you might find the story confusing and disjointed. That's because the 66 books of the Bible--which tell a single story as the revelation of God--are not arranged in chronological order. They aren't even arranged in the order they were written. Bryan Catherman uses Jenga pieces to help us visualize how the books of the Bible are ordered in a typical Christian Bible. Understanding how your Bible is structured will help you better understand what you are reading. It will also help you know where to start reading. You might not even want to begin in Genesis if you've never read the Bible. You have options because what was once individual scrolls in a cabinet or on a shelf are now bound together. It's like buying the complete box set of all the Marvel Universe movies today rather than collecting them as they came out.

In this video, Bryan also offers suggestions for different approaches to reading plans. He also suggests other ordered lists, but those suggestions are hotly debated and vary widely. The point is simply to demonstrate that there are more ways to order the Bible than by the canonical order. He didn't even mention the possibility of alphabetical order in the video, but that's an option, too.

Here’s the video:

Here's the traditional canonical order of the 66 books of the Bible: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel, 1 Kings, 2 Kings, 1 Chronicles, 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, 3 John, Jude, Revelation.

How Do I Use My Study Bible?

A study Bible is more than a Bible, but it's not less. Any good study Bible starts with the Bible as its foundation. Then, it will add tools that help a student of the Bible to study better. You may find an introduction to each book of the Bible. There may be a timeline so you know where you are in history at any point you're reading. There is likely a cross reference that will help you find other passages that pertain to the one you are reading and help interpret and make sense of what you are studying. Short commentary notes are typically the most popular part of a study Bible.

Some study Bibles are a bit light on the tools. Some only speak to specific issues such as end times or apologetics. Those are much less helpful than the more robust study Bibles.

A vast pool of top scholars produces the top-quality study Bibles, which include a whole toolbox of tools. The CSB Study Bible and ESV Study Bible (Christian Standard Bible and English Standard Bible, respectively) not only contain the essential tools, but you'll also find definitions of unique or particular words, word studies, articles and essays that help flesh out themes and bring matters to contemporary examples, concordances, maps, illustrations, photos, charts, and all sorts of other tools.

If you've never used a study Bible before, it might be intimidating to open it up. Bryan Catherman has recorded a short overview video to help you. He cracks open the CSB Study Bible and looks at the tools. He moves from the helpful introduction to specific spots in the study Bible so you can see what's there and be less intimidated. If you're thinking about getting a good study Bible or you are new to using a study Bible, this video may be just right for you.

If you haven’t yet selected a study Bible or you don’t know the difference between a “good” study Bible and one that’s “less helpful,” then “How to Pick a Study Bible” is the video for you.

Servants ARE Deacons

Join Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman as they discuss the qualifications and task of the deacon. Are all servants deacons? Or could it be that there are many classes of servants, and of those classes, deacon is one position within the classes of servants in the church? How should we understand Phoebe as a servant or deacon? This opens up questions about servants, but also about women serving in the local church. These are the topics the guys are hitting on in this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted. Listen to this episode wherever you listen to podcasts, or listen here:

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Stewards of the Bride: An Elder is a Shepherd

Join Salty Believer Unscripted as Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman discuss the role of the Pastor as a shepherd. The Pastor is a shepherd and there for, an Elder is a shepherd. What is that? What does it mean? What does it look like? Who is a Pastor? That’s the conversation in this episode as the guys address the question, “What is a Pastor?” You can listen to this episode wherever you get podcasts or listen here:

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Stewards of the Bride: What is an Elder?

In this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman discuss the role of Elder. What is this office in the church and how should we understand it, biblically? Who is an Elder? What are the responsibilities of the Elder? What are the qualifications? As of late, this is a controversial topic with many people chiming in. Listen to this episode wherever you listen to podcasts or listen here:

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Stewards of the Bride: How Many Offices are there in the Church?

Before we can start with the questions, “What is role of women in the ministry?,” “Who is a pastor?,” or “What is deacon?,” we need to ask, “What is an office and how many are there in the local church?” This is the foundational question for this episode Salty Believer Unscripted. Join Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman as they seek to unpack and answer this foundational question. Is it one, two, or more? Can someone serve the Bride of Christ without any meeting qualifications outlined by God? Can we set the qualifications ourself? If we have a third office, who sets the expectations and qualifications? How we answer this key question about office will set the rest of our answers in motion. Avoiding to answer this question causes the remainder of the questions to open up to more confusion. We’ve got to get this one right. Listen to this episode wherever you get your podcasts or listen here:

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Confusion in the Church: What is a Pastor?

On this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Josiah Walker opened the episode with a frustrated question about why the Church is confused by the role of Pastor, women in ministry, offices in the Church, and why the Church seems so broken today. If not the Church as a whole, at least the Church in American seems broken. And if not the Church in American, certainly in the Southern Baptist Convention is confused. As questions about gender have impacted the Church, debates still rage even after 2,000 years of the Church age. Why is it all broken? What is a Pastor? Who is a Pastor? What is the role of women in the Church, ministry, and leadership? What is an Elder? What is a Deacon? What does the Bible say about all of it and why does tradition have so much influence in this area? Is it time for another reformation? These are the questions that undergird the larger question, “Who and what are the stewards of the Bride?” That’s the series we’re entering on Salt Believer Unscripted and this introduction episode sets the stage. You can listen wherever you get podcasts or listen here:

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Christians, Politics, and the Next Presidential Election on SBU

On this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman discuss 7 warning for Christians as we engage in politics. They specifically looked as these warnings through the lens of specific examples with the recent Republican debate and the Donald Trump interview with Tucker Carlson. How should Christians engage in politics and to what extent? The seeds of this topic come from an article on SaltyBeliever.com titled, “Seven Warnings For Christians During this Election Season.” That’s the topic for this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted. Listen wherever you listen to podcasts or listen here:

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Friends who Fight: Why Every Planter Needs a Michael Cooper

Every guy planting a church needs two men in his life. One is the more seasoned Pastor who's there for the planter. He's there to tell the guy he'll survive, but he has to go the distance despite the punches, good rounds and bad, all twelve to the end. He's on the mat shouting, "Get up!" when the young man is down, and "Get off the ropes" when he's forgotten proper form. This man is probably the Pastor of an involved, caring, sending-church, and they are friends. For me, this man was and still is Pastor Kevin Lund at Risen Life Church, my sending Pastor and friend.

Then there's the other guy. Nobody talks about the second man. I've never read about him in any church planting book. I believe he might be just as important as the first man.

The second man is the guy who the planter-pastor can argue with. They can talk about ideas, passionately disagreeing, and yet remain friends. They challenge each other to bring their A-game. Nothing gets by the other. There are no easy pitches. They make each other better. For me, this was Michael Cooper, a NAMB Catalyst.

It's no secret that the first time I met Cooper, I had to hold back the urge to get in a fistfight with him. At first, I couldn't stand the guy, yet we'd talk and argue for hours. I started calling him my arch-nemesis. At one point, he actually asked me, "Bryan, how many bad ideas do you have in a day?" Nearly every conversation felt like a fencing match. But they forced me to think better. Even if I never agreed with Cooper, he made me sharper about my ideas. I looked forward to getting coffee with him.

Michael Cooper and I disagree on almost everything: missiological, ecclesiological, theological, and probably most other things, too. He used to advise other church planters to get coffee with me and then do the exact opposite of whatever I told them was a good idea. It made for a grand friendship, and I loved it. I needed it.

As it turned out, he was working on a doctorate at the same time I was at the same seminary. It became a race to see who would finish first, which spurred us both to get across the finish line. Technically speaking, he completed all the work first, but thanks to alphabetical order, I was hooded first. There was a brief moment when this "Dr." could look across the stage at that "Mr." and smile. You get the idea.

I graduated from NAMB support, and a global pandemic changed things. Michael Cooper and I are busier than ever. Our paths don't cross much. But today, I thought I disagreed with something he's been involved with recently, so I texted him to be sure. He asked that we meet in person. After nearly three years, we picked up right where we left off. That's what friends who can disagree with each other do.

Every church planter needs a Michael Cooper. They need someone to argue and fight with who is not in their congregation. They need someone to test all their ideas on so they can figure out which ones are good and which should be tossed aside. (For the record, I knew which ideas were the best for me based on how much Cooper said they were stupid. He was almost right sometimes, but I would have never told him!)

For the past 3 or 4 years, it seems nobody knows how to argue with someone and stay friends. Nobody values the blessing of a good fight to work out the best and worst ideas. We've lost this remarkable aspect of friendship. What has happened to our world? And also, having a friend like this makes life less boring.

Michael Cooper and his team are launching ValleyLight Church in West Valley, Utah this Sunday. I'm sure he's doing many things I would never do. Nonetheless, I'm praying for their launch, mission, and church. I'm praying for Michael Cooper and his family. I'm hopeful for this Kingdom work and look forward to all his bad ideas working well for a great group of brothers and sisters in Christ. If you're in West Valley and don't attend a Christian Church, check out ValleyLight. Really, I mean that.

May God bless you, Michael Cooper! Have a great launch. And you know where to find me if you want to get a burger and fight about your next terrible idea.

"Planting by Pastoring: A Vision for Starting a Healthy Church" by Nathan Knight

Knight, Nathan.  Planting by Pastoring: A Vision for Starting a Healthy Church. Wheaton, Ill: Crossway, 2023.   

As church planting networks and planters often focus on rapid growth and innovative strategies, Nathan Knight's Planting by Pastoring offers an encouraging and much-needed perspective. Published by Crossway in 2023 as part of the 9Marks series, this book is a call to prioritize church health over numerical growth. Could we have expected anything less from 9Marks? It's a short read at about 120 pages, but it packs a punch, offering a critique of current church planting paradigms and a biblical framework for planting healthy churches.

Nathan Knight planted Restoration Church and worked with 9Marks and Mark Dever in Washington D.C. He is also part of the Treasuring Christ Together Church Planting Network. His experience and background in Baptist theology shaped his perspective, but he's upfront with that. 

Knight's chief question in this book is, What would happen if we slowed down and aimed for more biblical health in church planting? He challenges the reader to consider the importance of shepherding and pastoring in church planting rather than focusing so much on innovative strategies, quick growth, and planting pregnant. Knight found that most planting literature is light on church health, and he does an excellent job calling planters to change this pattern. 

Knight's arguments are rooted in Scripture, aligning with the Apostle Paul's pastoral epistles and other New Testament teachings on church leadership. The book offers a reasonable and needed critique of church planting organizations that prioritize speed over health. Knight shares his own experiences, both successes and failures, in church planting, making the book relatable and authentic.

However, Planting by Pastoring could have benefited from additional examples, especially from those who have succeeded in what Kinght is arguing for. Knight draws heavily from his own experiences, but incorporating success stories from other church plants following his principles would strengthen his argument. Additionally, exploring how churches outside the Baptist tradition approach these issues could offer a more rounded perspective.

This book is a must-read if you are a church planter, involved in supporting church planting, or even just considering it. It should not only be on your shelf but be the first one you turn to. Why? Because it challenges us to aim for what should be the ultimate goal in any church plant: a healthy, Christ-centered church.

"Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve" (1 Peter 5:2).

In a time when we often measure success by numbers and speed, Planting by Pastoring calls us back to what church planting should be. It's a call to shepherd well, care deeply, cherish Christ, and plant robustly biblical and spiritually healthy churches. I highly recommend this book.

Pride like a Donkey

In this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman discuss the disaster of pride and arrogance in ministry. From time to time, pastors, professors, authors, and others get puffed up, even to the point of becoming a donkey. Josiah asked Bryan to interact with the following Martin Luther quote: "If you are highly pleased when someone praises you in the presence of others; if you perhaps look for praise, and would sulk or quit what you are doing if you did not get it—if you are of that stripe, dear friend, then take yourself by the ears, and if you do this in the right way you will find a beautiful set of big, long, shaggy donkey ears." Then, they discussed the dangers of ministry pride and personal kingdom-building. Then, they conclude by chatting about how to fight these temptations. Listen to this episode wherever you listen to podcasts or listen here:

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Seven Warnings for Christian During This Election Season

On November 5, 2024, my son will be 18 and cast a ballot in his first presidential election. He's interested, so we watched the first Republican party candidate debate together. He was shocked, and I remembered how unbiblical Christians can get in election seasons. Seeing believers so quickly turn away from the one who bought their salvation to worship the false idol they believe can buy them a fleeting moment of happiness is disheartening.   

Don't get me wrong. Romans 13:1-7 instructs Christians to submit to the governments God has appointed over us, and our government system needs us to examine candidates and vote. Regardless of what value we assign to the process, we honor God when we submit to him and vote. Although we're just passing through on our way to the Eternal City, Jeremiah 29:4-7 teaches a principle that there is something good and right about seeking the wellbeing of the land in which we reside. But there is nothing in here that should tempt us to forgo the principles and instructions of God to engage in the political process. 

As this next election cycle picks up speed, I'd like to offer a few warnings for Christians so we can honor God and avoid political idolatry.   

Be humble. "In his pride, the wicked man does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God" (Psalm 10:4). It's too easy to become puffed up with the information and knowledge we think we possess, forgetting that true wisdom comes from God alone. Our preferences and the further of politics can blind us to the reality that our understanding is limited and prone to error. The Apostle Paul wrote, "Do nothing out of selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility consider others as more important than yourselves" (Philippians 2:3). As Christians, we should hold our political convictions loosely, constantly checking them against the Word of God. Humility helps us navigate political discourse more wisely and prevents us from making an idol out of our opinions or preferred candidates.

Don't gossip.  Social media and non-stop pundit hype can tempt us to share unverified or salacious information about candidates faster than ever. Gossip is sharing unverified information to tarnish the reputation of another or get attention on ourselves. It can especially cause divisions within the body of Christ. Now, with AI and DeepFake technology added to the arsenal of video editing and Photoshop, it will be nearly impossible to discern what's real and what's not, but that won't slow us down when it comes to passing along the gossip. Paul lists gossip among behaviors that are not fitting for a follower of Jesus (Romans 1:29). It's crucial, then, to exercise great discernment and restraint in what we say and what we pass along, ensuring that our words build up rather than tear down and that they speak the truth with kindness.

Don't turn a blind eye. "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness" (Isaiah 5:20). How easily and quickly people blur or even erase the moral lines for political gain is frightening. Christians shouldn't be okay with this, regardless of political party. There is right and wrong defined by God, and we shouldn't look the other way for the sake of our candidate. As Christians, we must remember the bravery of John the Baptist, who called out Herod for his immoral behavior with his wife. Ultimately, it cost him his head, but it was the right thing to do. To look the other way when confronted with sin or immorality, especially for political convenience or to win an election, is to disregard our call to be salt and light in this world. Ignoring these issues is not an option; we must be willing to confront sin wherever we see it, regardless of its source or political affiliation. 

Love your neighbor. "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you" (Matthew 5:44). The polarization of political views has unfortunately led to a lack of love and grace toward those with differing opinions, even among believers. This contradicts Christ's command to love our neighbors. When we engage in political discussions or debates, we should do so with "feet sandaled with readiness for the gospel of peace" (Ephesians 6:15). The Gospel is a message of reconciliation, and our conduct should always reflect that, especially in our political discussions.

Don't assign false hope. "Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the Lord our God" (Psalm 20:7). In every election season, candidates promise change, hope, and a better future. It's the game they've always played to get your vote. We must remember that our ultimate hope is found only in Jesus. It's easy for Satan to tempt us to think that the 'right' leader will solve our problems. This false hope and idolatry detract from our true hope in Jesus Christ. If it's helpful this election, consider writing the following note and putting it where you'd see it daily: "Some trust in the Republican candidate and some in the Democratic candidate, but we trust in the name of the Lord our God."  

Judge biblically. "Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment" (John 7:24). During elections, there's a temptation to overlook the faults of our preferred candidates and amplify the flaws of opposing candidates. Remember that God shows no partiality (Romans 2:11). God calls us to exercise righteous judgment, holding all candidates to the same biblical standard of character and assessment. We must judge all candidates by the same standards, which should be the standards we expect to be judged (Matthew 7:1-2).  

Pray. "I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way" (1 Timothy 2:1-2). As the election season gains momentum, our most powerful tool is prayer. Please seek God's guidance. Ask our Lord for the wisdom to navigate complex political matters, discernment to identify truth and falsehood, and direction to make choices that align with God's will. We should diligently pray for the election's outcome and those who will assume leadership roles, even if it's not our preferred candidate. Asking for God's will to be done allows us to trust him rather than any human candidate or political institution.

When Disaster Strikes!

Join Josiah Walker and Bryan Catherman as they discuss disaster. Why does the world get so enthralled with disaster? We ask ourselves big questions when disasters happen, and we should, but do we ever take the time to think through the answers? Why are we so intrigued by disasters in the first place? What does the Bible say about disaster? What can we learn about life, death, sin, salvation, and God in disaster? They answer these questions and more in this episode. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or listen here:

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Parishioners and Mission within the Church

In this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Pastors Shawn Dobbins and Mark Whitaker to talk about the role of the typical parishioner in mission work. How does a church create a heart for mission in the entire church rather than in just a small group of folks? Hebron Baptist Church is doing this well and Shawn and Mark share some of what they are doing with Bryan Catherman. Listen to this episode wherever you listen to podcasts or listen here:

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Evaluating the Harvest: Looking at a Decade of NAMB Church Planting

I was first seriously introduced to the idea of evangelism through church planting in the Spring of 2007. Donald Miller's emerging church book, Blue Like Jazz, mentioned a preacher called "Mark the Cussing Pastor." After a quick Yahoo search, I found Mars Hill's podcasts of Mark Driscoll and downloaded all the available previous sermons to my iPod. He talked up church planting and a small group of churches called Acts 29, who were trying to plant more churches in America. God's timing couldn't have been more serendipitous. My family had just moved into a duplex beside a pastor studying church planting and exploring a call to plant in Seattle. We hit it off and almost went with them, but then God sent our three core-team families to three different cities, where we planted three churches that still thrive today.  

When the time came to plant a church, I didn't partner with Acts 29. While in seminary in 2011, I listened to a presentation of the Southern Baptist plan through the North American Mission Board (NAMB) to focus all their money and attention on planting churches in 32 major cities and then see those churches export Christianity and more church plants into all the rest of the U.S. and then out to the entire world. They called it the Send City Initiative. It made sense to my impressionable mind, and I was already a member of an SBC-affiliated church. So when the time came to plant, I saddled up with NAMB.  

It's been nearly 12 years since church planting changed my life, almost ten years since our Risen Life Church-supported Bible study in my home quickly became the makings of a church plant and birthed a new church in Salt Lake City, Utah. I've been asking myself what went well, what didn't, what I might have changed, and what would have been more helpful if I were to do it over. Was it worth the hard work, time, and money? I think so. I love Redeeming Life Church. But that's where honest evaluation and prayer have been insightful.  

As our church looks at evangelism in the U.S., we must consider how church planting serves this mission. As an SBC-affiliated church, we are evaluating our cooperation's "home team" church planting network. Is this the best place for our church to invest our time, work, and money? 

Coming up on the 13th anniversary of the NAMB trustees' election of Kevin Ezell as the President and 11 years since the launch of the Send City Initiative, it seems reasonable to take some time and evaluate how it's all going. Is it achieving the original goals? Is it working? If so, excellent! If not, what needs to change so we can be better stewards of God's gospel mission and the funds for that mission?          

At the 2023 annual meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention, Tyler Gresham, a messenger from Fairhaven Baptist Church in Demopolis, Alabama, made a motion requesting that the trustees of the North American Mission Board form a task force to study:  

1. The number of church plants started and church planters sent to those church plants since 2012; 

2. The number of those churches that continue to exist regardless of denominational affiliation, the number of those that continue to exist as SBC-affiliated churches, and the number of those that have ceased to exist; 

3. The number of church planters sent out since 2012 who continue to serve as vocational pastors regardless of denominational affiliation, the number of those who continue to serve as vocational pastors of SBC churches, and the number of those who no longer serve as vocational pastors; and 

4. The total amount of Cooperative Program funds spent on church plants since 2012.  

Gresham's motion concluded with a request that the NAMB trustees make the report of their findings available at the 2024 annual meeting in printed and digital formats.  

This motion is both an appropriate and reasonable request. When I partnered with NAMB as a church planter, they expected me to send them monthly reports, including how much money came into the church, how much I sent back to the Cooperative Program, how many gospel shares we had, how many in attendance, and how many baptisms. If I didn't give them an honest report of how we stewarded the funds they sent us, I suspect the partnership would need to be adjusted or terminated. Gresham's motion asks NAMB to do the same thing they expect from their planters.  

I would add two things to the request. First, not just how much money NAMB sent to each church planter, but how much was spent on the salaries of the Send City Missionaries, coordinators, and other NAMB employees involved with church planting and re-planting (maybe broke up between planting and re-planting), and how much was spent on travel, "Catch the Vision tours," conferences, hospitality, and marketing (NAMB swag). Second, it would be informative to have a report of the total number of gospel shares, professions of faith, baptisms, and other numbers to help assess the total cost per planter, existing church plant, gospel share, baptism, etc. Also, a breakdown by region or state would be helpful. 

I'm grateful for the large amount of CP money we received directly from NAMB for support and resources. I can see that amount for our church. But I don't know how much money was necessary for the NAMB missionaries who helped me find other partnerships. I don't see the cost of training meetings and conferences per attendee or planter. NAMB blessed my family with various gift cards and books sent to us for encouragement, but I didn't think to keep track of that cost. There were also football tickets, clothing, ATV days, and many other blessings that helped encourage me and the Send Salt Lake community of planters. I'm sure there were high costs to all of these blessings. When I survey my community and see how many plants closed or never launched, and how many planters left the field, I also have to factor all their costs into the effort.  

Honest transparency of this information will give us a clear picture of what we can celebrate and what needs adjusting. This information will help the SBC-affiliated churches who support NAMB be good stewards and partners in our Lord's mission to evangelize the United States and Canada.  

I am praying for the NAMB trustees because sharing a report of this caliber requires substantial integrity. If the findings look great, they will be eager to share the information, even if they had not been asked by the Messengers. But we have to realize it won't be swimming in every area. There is going to be room for improvement. But being publically transparent with the people paying the bills and sending the planters won't be easy. If there are glaring issues, the temptation to hide the information under a rug will be high. Maybe they brush the request off. Or even worse, they succumb to the temptation to spin the data to look good or, heaven forbid, falsify information.  

I still believe church planting is a vital part of the Great Commission. Southern Baptist-affiliated churches need to do their best to engage in church planting. An honest evaluation of how we've done over the past decade will help us make improvements for the next decade and beyond. NAMB trustees, please take Tyler Gresham's motion seriously and put together the best task force you can so we have the most helpful report possible so we can be the most effective group of churches planting churches in the world. We should strive for nothing less. 

Do Christians Still Think About In Vitro Fertilization (IVF)?

In this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Bryan Catherman and Josiah Walker talk about the ethics of In Vitro Fertilization (IVF). This was a hot topic in recent history but Christians seem to have have moved on to the next hot topic. But the question remains. Is IFV a good thing, bad thing, or something in between? What about cloning? Remember “Dolly”? What happens to unused embryos? Are Christians talking about this anymore? That’s the conversation and you can listen in to Salty Believer Unscripted wherever you listen to podcasts, or listen here:

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