Unscripted: Catherman on "The Approved Workman"

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Josiah Walker sat down with Bryan Catherman to talk about the book project, The Approved Workman: Developing Faithful Disciples Into Tested Leaders. This book, written by Catherman, serves as a roadmap to help pastors and those wanting to become pastors with a roadmap. Seminary is a great option for training, but why? What’s the goal? What’s the plan? Is there something to work alongside seminary? What about the co-vocational guy? How about someone who just can’t go to seminary? Indigenous training? What about a plan for ordination? The Approved Workman is a tool to get this conversation started and help pastors start training up others. Bryan talks about the book, it’s strengths and weaknesses, and how it might be helpful for those training to become pastors. Listen to the podcast here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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Fishing for People: It's a Both/And

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When it comes to reaching the lost, there's tension between random outreach and personal relationships. But going door to door, handing out tracts, and doing outreach events are not at odds with having personal relationships with friends, neighbors, and co-workers. One is like fishing the Atlantic Ocean with nets, and the other is like dry-fly fishing the Colorado River. If we want to be proficient fishers of people for the sake of Christ's Kingdom, we should do both kinds of fishing depending on where we're at the time -- on the ocean or wading into the river.

The different approaches have different strengths and weaknesses, although both are faithful.

One takes us to the strangers we've yet to meet. It connects us to the people who look different than us, the neighbors we've struggled to get to know, and those with who God might have made an appointment outside of our normal schedules. Fishing with nets opens doors we could have never planned for on our own. This method is like looking for the person of peace that Jesus discussed when he set his disciples ahead of him to do this kind of work. (See Luke 10.) This kind of outreach faithfully shows us where God is working and gives us new opportunities to join him where and when we see that work. When we're faithful with this method, we see things well beyond our little world.

The other approach digs into the relationships where God has placed us. There's an opportunity to model the Christian faith for a long time, over many of life's circumstances. Here, we build relationship equity and the seek opportunities for gospel seeds to be cast many, many times. Discipleship is a strong possibility too. This method is life on life, but only with a small, few people.

Rather than arguing for one method over the other, how about we celebrate how God uses both? How about we seek to be faithful in doing both? Lets see the mission field where God has placed us and be willing to go wherever else he's calling us.

Seminary Extension with Ward Curto

Ward Curto was our guest on Salty Believer Unscripted to chat about his experience with Seminary Extension. Seminary Extension is a true correspondence theological education program. Assignments come in the mail and you mail your work back. It’s a diploma program that utilizes the six SBC seminaries and snail mail. Many might ask if there’s still a place for a true correspondence program in a wired and wireless world. That’s a fair question, but not everyone is in a place where the internet is easy or available. Seminary Extension still uses paper and the postal system. Maybe it’s right for you. Especially if you live in a place that’s not internet deficient

In this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Ward Curto discusses his experiences with Seminary Extension. Listen here:

Is Seminary Extension Right for You? with Ward Curto

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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How to Pick a Good Daily Devotional

It's essential that followers of Jesus read God's Word, the Bible, regularly. Daily is probably best because God's Word provides us with the things we need to not only sustain life as a believer but to flourish as Christians. Another tool in the Christian disciplines that helps with our spiritual formation is reading other materials other than the Bible in a devotional way. It might even be that you incorporate a daily devotional into your time quiet time or study time with the Lord. What is a daily devotional? And how do I select a good devotional to read?

In this video, Bryan Catherman answers these questions and offers some examples. He even recommends some excellent devotionals that might help get you started.

Find more videos like these by subscribing to our YouTube channel or by visiting our resources tab on our website.

Unscripted: Thoughts on the 2019 SBC Annual Meeting

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Bryan Catherman attended the 2019 SBC Annual Meeting in Birmingham, Alabama this year. in years past, he stayed in Utah and watched the convention via the streaming channel. This year, however, he explored the showroom floor, participated in a committee, attended many ancillary meetings and discussions, and participated in the convention meetings. There was lots of worship, times of prayers, panel discussions, and business. But what people were really interested it is all the swag. Bryan Catherman and Jared discussed the annual pros, cons, ups, and downs. Listen to this episode here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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Saving the Reformation by W. Robert Godfrey

Godfrey, W. Robert. Saving the Reformation: The Pastoral Theology of the Canons of Dort. York, Penn: Reformation Trust, 2019.

Dr. W. Robert Godfrey has brought about a new book exploring the Canons of Dort. In its pages, he looks at the history of the synod, the backdrop, the theology, and the canons. There were five heads of doctrine (or points) from the Remonstrants (Arminians). The synod addressed these five points with five responses. What people often think of Calvinism (TULIP) comes from this response, although the reaction doesn't perfectly line up with TULIP as we know it, nor is it a complete summary of Calvinism.

Godfrey offers a new translation of the Cannons of Dort which are smoother to read than previous translations. Following the new translation, he provides commentary and thoughts on the material, although he's clearly biased. He does not claim to be neutral. Appendix 1 is a new look at Jacobus Arminius and his beliefs.

Saving the Reformation is a helpful book and gives us a great look at what's behind Calvinism. I put forward that most New Calvinist have no idea what's behind what they believe. I suspect most New Calvinist would argue against some of the things Dort suggests if they didn't know where it came from, which is why need to go back to the sources.

Here are two videos from Godfrey about Saving the Reformation. You'll find a shorter video and a longer video interview. The more extended interview is excellent, but if you don't have the 20 minutes to watch, the shorter video offers a 1-minute summary of why we should read this book.

I highly recommend Saving the Reformation to anyone interested in Church history, theology, Calvinism, or Arminianism. It's an interesting and enjoyable read.

Finally, if you’d like more of my thoughts on this book, here’s a video review I did.

The Naturally Supernatural Life, with Alex Absalom

Author, pastor, and missiologist Alex Absalom joined Bryan Catherman on Salty Believer Unscripted to explore the question, “What does the Christian life look like when it’s lived to the fullest?” Absalom wears many hats. He is presently working on a series of books about the naturally supernatural life and he’s been highly involved in equipping the church to be more outreach focused by way of missional communities. He’s the co-author of Discipleship That Fits: The Five Kinds of Relationships God Uses to Help Us Grow. He’s a pastor seeking to grow a house church movement in Southern California. You’ll find him working with 100 Movements. And you can find him and his many other projects on line at www.DandelionResourcing.com.

There were three components of the question Bryan posed to Alex. The question again: “What does the Christian life look like when it’s lived to the fullest?” Alex discussed what that looks like regarding the power and empowerment believers receive from God as we join him in his mission, what it looks like to be missional, and what we might see over the long life of one maturing in Christ. Listen to his episode (“The Naturally Supernatural Life”) here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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The Approved Workman by Bryan Catherman

I’m pleased to announce that I’ve written a book and it’s now available.

Over the years, I've sat with a few young men who have expressed that they want to be pastors. Sometimes they talk of going to Bible college or seminary, but often they don't have the funds or can’t go. Boots-on-the-ground training--that's what they'd like from me. Some conversations have to do with becoming a missionary in a far-away land. Other discussions have something to do with church-planting, especially bi-vocational church planting. The church planters and church planting networks dialogue on this idea too.

The big question: How do we train local pastors for the local mission field?

There are many resources out there. One could easily use the free stuff at BiblicalTraining.org. There are training programs like Gateway's Advance program. NAMB has a Multiplication Pipeline. And of course, there's seminary on campus or online. The trouble is not finding the resources. There are plenty of resources. The more significant challenge is having a good, customizable roadmap that takes the best advantage of the available resources. That’s the heart and intention behind the book.

After a few years of this ongoing conversation, I finally wrote out a roadmap. It’s called The Approved Workman: Developing Faithful Disciples into Tested Leaders. In 135 bound pages, I set out to explain each step of the journey and then provide something of a workbook to chart the progress. Starting with a section called The Initial Christian Life, I plot a course through prayer, evangelism and discipleship, learning to lead small groups, and then on to the training of a pastor. To conclude, I also added a section on sharpening the saw as a seasoned pastor and an appendix about how to conduct an ordination board or council, to include what topics to examine in the candidate.

I intend that a pastor (or trainer) and a trainee will work through the book together. I also expect that a wide variety of resources will be used so the book is written in such a way that edits and additions are simple.

Is it enough? I don't know.

The early part of the journey is simple enough. There are lots of books on the early topics, and I focused on discipleship in my doctoral work. For the pastoral training however, I took all my syllabi from seminary and assembled a step by step reading list. I explored other books and updates. I’ve read all books listed in The Approved Workman (except all the Counterpoints Series) and many of the authors have been guests on Salty Believer Unscripted. From my experience, I built a task list of things that should be done with help and supervision to gain practical experience. Then I asked may other professors and pastors for ideas and suggestions. The result is a robust guide. One could check off the steps by going to seminary, or one could do the hard work outside of the seminary--either way, the goal is to become a proficient, trained pastor, missionary, or church planter.

I used the print-on-demand option through Amazon because I wanted the ability to make updates if better resources come along. And honestly, I wasn't sure how many publishers would be okay promoting so much work from other publishers.

If you're looking to grow into a pastor and need some guidance about which steps to take, I pray this book will help you. If you're a pastor looking to train up others, this book was designed for you. I highly encourage you to get a copy, make the edits you need, and starting training up the next generation of pastors, missionaries, and church plants.

Pick up a copy of The Approved Workman by following this link.

I sincerely hope this book serves as a good addition to our efforts to train up the pastors behind us.

For the Kingdom!
Dr. Bryan Catherman

** Special Note: There's a Kindle version of The Approved Workman; however, it's available in that format primarily for the trainer who will not need to write and mark in the book. The Kindle formatting might also become a challenge in the area of task lists.

Holy Noticing by Charles Stone

Dr. Charles Stone, author of Holy Noticing: The Bible, Your Brain, and the Mindful Space Between Moments, delivers again. We go through so much of life mindlessly. We don’t even remember one day to the next, one moment to the next, and we feel scatter-brained. But that’s not how God intended us to live and it’s not how Jesus lived. Stone does a nice job bringing the idea of mindfulness to Christians without importing secularism or ideas of emptying the mind as other religions promote.

I loved Stone’s previous book, Brain-Savvy Leaders: The Science of Significant Ministry. That book was a wonderful mix of science and Scripture, written in both an easy-to-understand and a simple-to-implement way. (Dr. Stone is a leading expert in neurological leadership.) But mindfulness? Everything I ever see in that area draws from Buddhism or secular-humanism or other odd places. I was nervous.

Then we had Stone on Salty Believer Unscripted to talk about Holy Noticing. Moody sent me an advanced copy and I started reading. I was pleased to see that this book was nothing as I feared. Reading the first few chapters and talking with Stone, it was obvious this book, like the previous one, is a good mix of science and Scripture. Also, the book is full of instruction and practice tips so a follower of Jesus Christ can engage in the discipline of spiritual awareness or, if you’d prefer a different term, holy noticing.

You can listen to the Salty Believer Unscripted interview below. And follow this link to purchase your copy of Holy Noticing. I highly recommend this book for anyone wanting to become more aware of what God is doing in our lives and how he created us to see him working better.

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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A Conversation with Dave Rhodes about Younique

Dave Rhodes is a tool-maker. He’s a pastor. He’s the co-founder of Younique. He’s involved in 10,000 Fathers and 100 Movements. But he’s only doing one thing. “He’s working to make the church a agent again by training believers in wisdom and power.” Dave met with Bryan Catherman via Skype to discuss Younique, calling, and identity. They also talked about reproducible tools for discipleship, discovery, and and what Dave does at Younique to help people design the dream God has for them and then determine how to live that out. It was a robust conversation worth checking out.

Also, if you’re in the Atlanta area and not connected with a local church, go visit Grace Fellowship Church where Dave is the Pastor of Discipleship & Movement Initiatives.

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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A Conversation with Will Mancini about Clarity

Author and tool maker, Will Mancini join us on Salty Believer Unscripted to talk about clarity. Of course, we discussed is books and projects, but when you get right down to it, they all seem to revolved around the significance of clarity. And Will is serious about clarity.

Will Mancini is the author of Church Unique: How Missional Leaders Cast Vision, Capture Culture, and Create Movement, God Dreams: 12 Vision Templates for Finding and Focusing Your Church’s Future, and others. His forthcoming book is titled, Younique: Designing the Life that God Dreamed for You. He is also the founder of Auxano and the co-founder of Younique. He discusses a little bit of all of these in the podcast.

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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Inside the UISBC: Planning the Annual Meeting

The Utah-Idaho Southern Baptist Convention holds an annual gathering where all the messengers of Utah and Idaho come together for mutual encouragement and to conduct the necessary business for the year. But there’s usually not as much business as one might thing. In this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Bryan Catherman and Jared Jenkins (both elected officers of the UISBC) share what went into the planning for this year’s annual meeting. While there’s a lot more to be done as we get closer to the meeting, they discuss the initial meeting and why getting involved is valuable.

Listen to this week’s episode, “Inside the UISBC: Planning the Annual Meeting” here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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Inside the UISBC: An Introduction

Bryan Catherman and Jared Jenkins are involved with the Utah-Idaho Southern Baptist Convention. The UISBC is a two-state convention within the Southern Baptist Convention. What does that even mean?

It can be a little confusing, but it’s not complicated once you see how it works. And when you see why there’s a convention, you might better understand why it’s a good opportunity to be an active part of it. Neither Bryan nor Jared had a guide to the inner-workings of the convention but that has not stopped them from seeking to figure it out. And to help others, they are chronicling their journey so others might understand too. Think of it as pulling the curtain back. Or better yet, imagine them as adventurers traveling across new territory and making a map as they go. Of course, many saints have come before them, so they hope to interview some of those faithful brothers and sisters along the way.

In the introduction of this series, “Inside the UISBC” Bryan and Jared explain the broad history of the Southern Baptist Convention as well as provide an overview of the two-state convention known as the UISBC. Come along for the journey because we suspect you might learn some things and you might find some new opportunities to join with other churches for the sake of advancing the gospel.

Listen to the introductory episode here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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Ordering Your Private World by Gordon MacDonald

Ordering Your Private World (W Publishing, 2017) by Gordon MacDonald is a book for any person feeling tossed around by this crazy world. Is your desk covered in clutter, your oil change way past due, and you feel like your day drives you rather than you driving your day? This book is for you. Ordering Your Private World is a book about spiritual formation, starting at the core.

MacDonald quoted E. Stanley Jones final thoughts on his death bed. Stanley said, "The innermost strands are the strongest" (143). His point was that all the stuff around the outside is could break away so long as the core would hold to the very end. That's the idea of Ordering Your Private World. But MacDonald takes it further, arguing that when the private world (the core) the public world falls into order too.

MacDonald opens every chapter with an illustration. These include that of a submarine jarring around but the deck was under control, a POW holding on to God from what was planted in earlier times, gardens, ropes, and all sorts of other easy-to-see pictures that help make understanding the importance of a well-ordered spiritual core. The first two-thirds of the book offers compelling reasoning for having Christ at the center of one's life, while the latter part of the book offers some simple "how-to" ways to get started with spiritual formation. Most of us do not have an ordered private world. Pastors are no different and this book is good for pastors and non-pastors alike.

This book is filled with gold nuggets and it's like sifting through soft beach sand to unearth the best stuff. It's easy and enjoyable. Even the sand is warm and inviting. In his 70's at the time of the revised and updated version, MacDonald has a lifetime of experience to draw from, making the book rich and more helpful.

Looking to dig into a deeper walk with Christ? Seeking to get centered and stable in an upside-down world? This book is for you. Pick up Ordering Your Private World wherever you buy books (which is probably Amazon.com).

Unscripted: "Eastern Orthodox Easter 2019"

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Jared Jenkins attended the Eastern Orthodox Easter service again. In typical Salty Believer Unscripted, Bryan and Jared and looking at the good things from the service, the things that we are humbly in disagreement with, and the things the western evangelical church could learn.

One of the very early Salty Believer Unscripted podcasts was recorded on location many years ago. Tim Lunn was also a part of that podcast. And there have been a few after that, too. Follow this link to listen to that first podcast on location. We also discussed our experience about that service a week later. You can listen to those thoughts here.

As we’ve been podcasting for many years now, and either hold a doctorate or are close to having one, we hope our thoughts and discussion has matured some. Check out Jared’s reflection on the Eastern Orthodox Easter service in 2019.

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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Believer's Baptism Should Be Taken Seriously

I’m always a bit uneasy when I’m reminded that some of my favorite authors, pastors, preachers, and theologians hold to a position on baptism I just don’t see strongly presented in Scripture. There’s an argument for infant sprinkling that draws on some ideas about God’s people and circumcision, but that idea is nowhere near as clear and compelling as the idea of baptism after regeneration. Romans 6 paints a profound picture of baptism as the symbolic death, burial, and resurrection with Christ, after regeneration.

Who is marked in the Church? Those who are elect, born-again, regenerate saints or everyone and we’ll hope some stick because they are elect and will someday be regenerate? Which one seems more likely when we read Scripture?

I also am uneasy when people use one of the the most pointed pictures of baptism (death, burial, and resurrection with Jesus) as an argument why believers don’t need to be baptized. While baptism is not a saving act, it is an important act of obedience. And the thief on the cross argues for that too.

I recently preached a sermon at Redeeming Life Church where I took a hard look at baptism from Scripture, including examples from Scripture, an example from the Protestant Reformation, and an modern-day example that our brothers and sisters around the world are facing. You may listen to my sermon, “Be Baptized” from Matthew 28:19 here:

You may find other sermons I’ve preached at Redeeming Life and elsewhere here.

Unscripted: "The Missing Link"

Bryan’s wife was recently doing a study about understanding God’s will and felt something was off. Nearly anybody who was a Christian in American in the late 80’s and early 90’s would have be familiar with this study. Most probably did the study in there churches and Sunday school programs. Most probably didn’t even notice the gigantic leaps the popular author made with Scripture. But he’s not the only author to make such miss-steps. These kind of failures can be found everywhere, especially in popular books and popular preaching.

Bryan Catherman and Jared Jenkins take a look at the “mission premise” in this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted. It’s about learning to identify the mission but assumed bridge. After listening to this week’s episode, you may never look at popular authors and Bible studies in the same way.

Listen to this episode here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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The Imperfect Disciple by Jared Wilson

The Imperfect Disciple: Grace for People Who Can't Get Their Act Together (Baker Books, 2017) by Jared Wilson is exactly what it claims to be. Wilson said, "I want to write a discipleship book for normal people, for people like me who know that discipleship means following Jesus--and we know that following Jesus is totally worth it, because Jesus is the end-all, be-all--but we often find that following Jesus takes us to some pretty difficult places" (14). A couple of pages before this statement, he shares his concern for the sea of discipleship books that inadequately get to the life realities that really matter. They stay too "Sunday school." The Imperfect Disciple is not one of those books.

A friend of mine nailed the description of this book while trying to describe the kind of discipleship book Wilson did not want to write. My friend said, "I'm so tired of those books that say, 'I used to struggle with this or that, but now that I've got in all figured out, let me tell you about it.'" He said, "This book [The Imperfect Disciple] is so refreshing because it's not one of those books." Because Wilson is honest and vulnerable about his journey--even where he's at right now--the book lives up to its tag line.

The unique aspect of The Imperfect Disciple is the assumption that the disciple first needs to cut through all the expectations and stereotypes and misunderstands of both the gospel and discipleship. Each chapter has an angle that sees who Christ is, who the disciple could become, and how the gospel makes that happen without being too direct or in-your-face. The reader is subtly invited into a journey with Jesus. But it's not that obvious because these things are buried in a subtle structure of storytelling. Jared Wilson is much more of a storyteller than a 'how-to' writer. He’s creative. It makes the chapters interesting and easy to read.

Each chapter title sounds about like one a person would expect to find in a discipleship book. For example, Sin and the Art of Soul Maintenance or The Nine Irrefutable Laws of Fellowship. However, each chapter also has a tag line that's far closer to the actual chapter than its title. These include When You Don't See the Advantage of Being at the Bottom, When You Think God Is Giving You the Silent Treatment, and When You Wonder If It Could Get Any Worse.

This is the book for the guy or gal in the pew, trying to live out the Christian life but finding it's not always as easy as everyone else makes it out to be.

For some, it might take a chapter or two to get accustomed to Wilson's writing style. The book is written in a conversational, chit-chatty tone that's probably better suited for a TED Talk than a non-fiction book. It can be distracting at times, but it's not much different from many popular books published in the same year. At the same time, some of the book's tone opens up a path for great honesty and rawness. It's a curse and a strength.

I highly recommend this book to anyone wanting to get a jumpstart or reboot on his or her view and understanding of what it means to walk with Jesus. It's a refreshing look at the power and reality of the gospel. Pick up a copy of The Imperfect Disciple: Grace for People Who Can't Get Their Act Together wherever books are sold.

Unscripted: "Critical Scholarship"

What is critical scholarship? How should we view scholars who study the Bible but don’t believe it’s true? Should we be afraid of this kind of scholarship? Can it helpful? In this episode of Salty Believer Unscripted, Bryan Catherman and Jared Jenkins discuss critical scholarship.

Listen to the episode here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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"Your Future Self With Thank You" with Drew Dyck

Author Drew Dyck has a new book out called, Your Future Self Will Thank You: Secrets to Self-Control from the Bible and Brain-Science (2019, Moody Publishers). He join Bryan Catherman to discuss the book, publishing, and the new habits he developed in the process of writing the book. Drew is an editor at Moody Publishers and was previously an editor at the Leadership Journal. His work has been featured in Outreach Magazine, Christianity Today, CNN, the Huffington Post, and other magazines. He’s also the author of Generation Ex-Christian and Yawning at Tigers. His new book is available wherever books are sold.

Listen to the conversation here:

Find more podcasts like this, as well as many interviews with Christian pastors, professors, authors, and others from all across the US and Canada on our Salty Believer Unscripted page. And be sure to subscribe to the Salty Believer Unscripted on your favorite podcast app, or use these links:
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